HOT WIDOWED MESS
Welcome to Hot Widowed Mess with your host, Heather! This podcast is dedicated to normalizing grief and embracing the wild ride of being a young widow. Join Heather as she explores the unfiltered realities of loss and healing, sprinkled with dark humor and candid discussions. She’ll shine a light on the unexpected challenges and experiences no one talks about, all while raising awareness about the importance of mental health during difficult times. Expect explicit content and raw honesty as we navigate this journey together. Let’s break the stigma and share our stories!
HOT WIDOWED MESS
The Day My Husband Died: Heathers Heartbreaking Journey into Widowhood
How do you honor a life lost in a split-second heroic act? Together with my best friend Laci, we unravel the deeply personal story of becoming a widow—a side of my life I've seldom shared. We journey back to the fateful day of June 26th, 2020, when an unforeseen river tragedy forever altered the course of my life. Through candid and unscripted dialogue, we confront the raw emotions of grief and emphasize the profound lesson life’s unpredictability imparts: Cherish every moment with those you love.
As we recount the events of a river rescue gone tragically awry, we also reflect on the societal judgments and misconceptions that emerge in the wake of such incidents. We celebrate the selflessness that earned recognition from the Carnegie Hero Memorial and share the collective experience of grief and gratitude for survival. This narrative is not just about loss but also about the enduring power of love and the strength that arises from shared hardships.
In the aftermath of loss, navigating life with intention becomes paramount. I share how creating meaningful memories with my children, embracing new experiences, and finding therapeutic outlets in bodybuilding have been transformative. Parenting alone brings unique challenges, yet support from family and friends has been crucial. I discuss treatments I found beneficial, such as ketamine therapy, to heal and grow. Join us in this heartfelt conversation about resilience, vulnerability, and the healing journey through trauma and friendship.
Hello everyone and welcome to Hot Widowed Mess. I have my bestie with me today.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows you already.
Speaker 2:I mean probably.
Speaker 1:It's Laci Yay. Maybe we could do this as like a dual episode of like why I'm so guarded and cut off and all the things.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, hopefully we're going to explain a lot. We're going to try, we're going to see what we get through Today's kind of a big topic episode.
Speaker 1:Yes, one that I have never, which is odd because this is like hot wooded mess my journey through grief, right, but I think it kind of crashed in number one because it was supposed to be our podcast initially. Then, when I broke off, it was like what do I have to talk about? Well, grief, of course, and I want to normalize grief and what people go through, turning the mics down slightly, um, and so I wanted to just be like this is the raw real, what it was, and now it's just kind of evolving and I'm like why is there no story about how I became a widow, in fact, but I don't tell. Then I realized I don't tell anybody. Really, I have talked about it on one podcast with ellen um, confessions of a group x instructor, and I think it was more.
Speaker 1:it was easier because it was like just her asking me questions it was a matter of fact, yes, and I had questions ahead of time where I prepared answers, where on this podcast, we don't do that, because I feel like when you're prepared, yeah I don't like prepared, because then it's like a speech right and I don't want to go listen to a speech. It bores me like I want to listen to, like the real, the raw, like how it comes out. So that's why we're unscripted, unedited, no notes, but I do have lacy to keep me on topic or whatever moral support today.
Speaker 2:Yes, because today is the death day episode, yeah, yeah. So we're gonna kind of there might be pauses and things like that. We're gonna just kind of see how far we get, and I'm gonna garden during this episode probably I don't know what you need to do. Where'd the pendulum go there? It is obviously hard, you know, to talk about aggressive. Sorry, yes, it is, can you?
Speaker 1:tell that I'm like am I going off topic where I?
Speaker 2:can see the anxiety in you. I'm sure people can feel it, but it is hard to talk about. I mean it's not like it was untraumatic, right? Sometimes death occurs and there's like trauma, but like the event of it actually occurring itself is untraumatic. But this is twofold, yes, so that makes it more difficult to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess we just start. So, for those of you who do not know, I guess I just need to take this as nobody knows. So square one, it was a normal Friday, june 26th 2020, and coming off, covid times, right. So things were crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we're opening back up because Luke had gone back to work, which I am very thankful that we got all this time together during COVID, because we spent a lot of time together, um, did a lot of things, um, but he had just started going back to work. So I remember it was like nice outside and I'm like I want to go to the river, like we spent all this time on the river always always and normally we float.
Speaker 1:And so this day our friend um chance, and his dog was there. I don't know if the dog was there. Um, yes, dog was there and we were just going to just kind of take like the kayaks out and just kind of mess around on the river instead of just like floating the river. Um, so when we got there, oh, this is like corbin park by the way, I always do like a psa like corbin park, apparently there's so many deaths it's very dangerous in this exact same location correct.
Speaker 2:And what it is?
Speaker 1:the next day, exactly 24 hours later yes, um, the same situation and he had a life jacket on I think. I think there was a life jacket on him, but when I tell you like I am a strong swimmer and okay, also those, some people, some people we're north idaho babies, yeah, like I've been around water, yes, avondale, which is really gross that I would swim in that lake but at one point in time we we swam in that it wasn't gross. I feel like like back then.
Speaker 1:back then it wasn't, but you just OK, anyways, but we would swim across like, or Hayden, like you just swam until, like you didn't swim anymore, like I was such such a strong swimmer so I didn't have a life jacket on. I was, we were OK, so we were just going across. I'm gonna take this back. So luke is on the bank with my mom and lily like this is a family event like let's all go because it's, you know, the weekend we want to go to the river, um, and was it packed?
Speaker 1:yes, so we were in the back. So corbin park, if you know like it's not where, like you just walk in on the rocks. It's like back parking lot where you like walk down the big rocks, yes, and it's like rocks river, where it's like there's not a lot of rivers. So, like you feel very safe because it doesn't seem very big. There is a lot of people, like on the bank too, like there are several people in. Oh, you're good, it's a sick season, right, it's going around um coffee and I apologize, so chance goes across, comes back.
Speaker 1:I decided to take Kinsley on the kayak and, as we're kind of like coming back around it like like it was the weirdest thing, like it like flipped, like it felt like somebody flipped the kayak that I was in and I like never had an issue with stability on a kayak, anything like that. So me and Kinsley are in the water now at this point and my mom is like Luke is like jumping in the water. Um, I like kind of go to like scoop underneath the kayak to make sure Kinsley's not underneath there and Luke had already jumped in. I mean, this is like my recollection.
Speaker 1:I was like things happened very quickly and I don't remember a lot of what happened because I had no idea that luke was actually like I can tell you what I know based off of you know yes, so from that happening, like she was no longer in the water, brayden was behind me in another kayak and I don't know like it suction cupped up, like suction not suction cup, but like like you were in a drain.
Speaker 1:Like the kayak came back around and I went to go grab it, to flip it and it went like the titanic, like straight up and down and sunk in the water and I remember thinking like what the fuck? And then it was like I was under the water, like it was, and I couldn't really get back up. There was like points where I'd come back up and then, like I remember luke grabbing me at one point but I was like kind of shoved him, like I thought he was trying to like help me and it wasn't helping me and I just kind of like tried to like push. I was trying to be like I'm good, like you go. Because there was a point brayden kind of came back to help me.
Speaker 1:He had lost his paddle and I pushed his kayak far away because I was afraid that it was going to do he would also do the same thing and so in the intermium of that, luke had grabbed kinsley and gave kinsley to brayden, who, brayden, held on to her life jacket and floated down the river saying to save my sister, save my mom.
Speaker 1:And we were stuck in the whatever like at that point yes, and I think luke at that point had already gone under and I must have still came back up, like there was a point where I thought I was never coming back up again because I could not breathe anymore. And I opened my eyes and there was nothing, like I didn't see any light whatsoever and I was like there's no way I can get to surface because you're down too deep.
Speaker 1:You don't know which way to go it was like someone's like pulling you like. I can swim really well and I was swimming. Like you know, when you get down like you jump in, like and you don't hit bottom like you, jump in from a high rock, as we do. As we do, yes, so jumping, and you go really deep, but you don't hit bottom, and so you have to then get back up very forcefully, like you're swimming up.
Speaker 2:So that's the water pressures coming down on you. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So on this, I'm swimming as hard as I can up and it's just sucking me my eye, open my eyes and I see nothing. So at this point I'm like okay, and I remember like everything almost going black and then I hit water and I just took a breath and then there was several times where I was like struggling and I remember I kind of got up and I hear chance, go, eddie out. And it just makes me pissed and I remember being like the fuck, like I can just get on my back and Eddie, the fuck out. I would do that, like I'm not. Like I just remember being angry at that point and being like I remember saying call 911. I'm drowning.
Speaker 1:And there was people that were just like sitting there on the bank.
Speaker 1:Now I don't really know, I just obviously saw briefly, but I somehow ended up getting out of that enough to where, when I kind of like floated out of that enough and almost was like passing out, there was like a kid with an inner tube and a string attached to it coming to come grab me and I was, I got out of the water and I was just throwing up and then a cop comes and then that's when, like I was like I'm fine, and then my mom is saying where's Luke? And I just start screaming, yeah, and it does not process. I'm like he's just down there, like the same thing happened to me, like I don't remember where he's been. I can't remember the last time. Like I was just like there's no way in my brain. I just thought he was gone. It was me that was in the water, like I, when I felt him. Like I never felt him again, like so I assumed he had gone out of wherever sure, because your whole intention was get away.
Speaker 1:No, one was screaming for kinsley anymore, so I was assuming everything was like and no one was in my area, so I didn't realize what was happening. Yeah, so it wasn't until that. And then I ran back to the car. I actually called becca and I was like people come out of the river all the time, right, like you guys pull people out of the river all the time. And she was like, yeah, unbeknownst to me, she was on her way in the ambulance with people. Um, yeah, he ended up being stuck. So it in that same area. Yeah, he did not make it out he did not.
Speaker 2:The whole thing like you talked about, like how fast it happened, like it happened that fast in real life too, is what was crazy, like from an outside perspective. I was not there, yeah, like I'm referencing that, but I've had multiple conversations with lots of people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was cool. We weren't even there that long. No, it was, um, we had just gotten there, we had just gotten in the water. It was. We hadn't even been there I don't think 20 minutes. There was no drinking, there was no nothing. It was literally like we were there and there was so many people around. So just the the fact that and it happened again the next day- it's just this one spot the exact next day it correlates with the dam, the dam being open and it's not the dam's fault.
Speaker 1:But river is a nature, it's part of nature so when it is open and the water is flowing in that way, there's some rock formation that's creating and it looks totally normal from the top right, because it's towards the bottom, you wouldn't be able to see it and so and it the kayak was stuck underneath there.
Speaker 1:It took them, I think, like almost an hour to two hours to be able to get him back because of the pressure yes, because I was pulling him yes. Yeah, so I'm very fortunate to be out, um to have gotten out, and he is a member of the Carnegie hero Memorial for saving me and Kinsley.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I want to say, like when, when the news and stuff first comes out I feel like any type of news like this it's, it goes through a circle, right the initial response from people is positive Um, you know, giving you well wishes, like I never got like any well you were like out of it. You weren't, people were not letting you see things, and for good cause. Because then people are, you know, people get judgy and people make assumptions and people are like, well, why wasn't he wearing a life jacket?
Speaker 1:oh, because okay, he wasn't wearing a life jacket because he was not in the water. Because he wasn't in the water Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wasn't in the water and he had no intention of getting in the water.
Speaker 1:It was me. Kinsley had a life jacket on. He jumped in the bank to save his. He jumped in Because he saw the kayak capsize.
Speaker 1:Yes, and, without hesitation, just immediately ran into the water and his baby daughter. How old was Kinsley at the time? A year and a half. Yeah, so, baby daughter, because she turned two in September and so this happened to end of June. Yeah, and so we also didn't think that there was any issues. He was just jumping in to save her and was going to swim. You know, not like save her At this time, we just think it capsized, whatever just was getting the kayak.
Speaker 2:It was like we didn't realize it was happening until it's too late so yeah, people can judge all they want, and I love that people do like it's. It is what it is. Yeah, it's gonna happen, no matter what. I mean there could be like full-on frame by frame, but he was, yes, he is still gonna judge there was so much investigation and detective like positive detective work that went into the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Afterwards I worked with somebody, um, his whole job is that he just dissects everything and um, that was when luke was inducted into the hero memorial yeah, the carnegie hero memorial for his selfless act of going into the river. So he didn't need a life dragon on, he wasn't in the river, he just did it to save us.
Speaker 2:So, yes, and it I mean the whole thing. Um probably took five minutes max, yeah, even, yeah, not very long not very long at all, because what happened, the story I was told, was like yeah, so like he jumped in and it yeah, you hand it. I was told that you handed him kinsley, no, and that kind of went no, kinsley started to float. Well, no, kinsley started to float.
Speaker 1:Well, no. So Kinsley went like this way, like right, like kind of went to my left and I assumed kind of going down the river, someone's I assumed someone was grabbing her. I went to go grab the kayak to flip, because he was already jumping in the water at this time, and then Brayden was right behind me. Brayden lost his paddle in the middle of this um, but I think that he must have just gone under. In the last time I was when I when I touched him, I'm assuming when I felt him. I don't know, I don't know. I don't think anyone really knows either yeah, because that's what they this is.
Speaker 2:What they told me was that he handed kinsley to brayden and then he went back for you because he saw you not back.
Speaker 1:Okay, so back we were.
Speaker 2:It was all in the water at this time right, but I mean like he had turned to get kinsley away. Yes, so he gave kinsley and then came back to me and then saw you get pulled under and then came back to me yes, and I think he got stuck in and when I went.
Speaker 1:Yes, and as I was seeing tisa, after um, she described to me because what I had gone through, like the blacking out yes, that was what she said happened to him, not like drowning, and she said so. It was more like a blackout, so it wasn't like suffering. Because she said that she feels the difference, like there is a different difference between drowning, the feeling of drowning, versus just like oxygen deprivation, passing out sure, so the pressure kind of knocked him unconscious.
Speaker 2:No, I think we know it's just like your lack of oxygen.
Speaker 1:She just passed out from holding your breath.
Speaker 2:Got it.
Speaker 1:So which is what I was doing too, right? So where some people's instinct like you breathe in To breathe? Yeah, so he didn't do that, yeah, so he passed out and then drowned, so there wasn't like the suffering, drowning type thing, because she said that actually physically really hurts.
Speaker 2:That's what I heard, so that made me feel better, and also it's weird, because that's how close.
Speaker 1:I was right and honestly, like I remember thinking of the kids and I wasn't scared at the fact. I was like, well, this is it. And it was like black and then, all of a sudden, like I hit the surface you're like aware that it's going out yes, and I was just like, well, this is it.
Speaker 1:And then I hit surface and that was when I heard the eddie out and maybe that being pissed sent my adrenals like I just screamed like call 911. It was just like. And then I tried to. When he said eddie out, I was like I can't fucking do that. But that was also when I was like I started backstroke. I started to like try to get on top of the water instead of fighting it and I wonder if that because I was just fighting, I was just trying to like backstroke anything I could do to keep my face up, to keep like water to keep. And then it was like, as I was struggling so hard, I saw this kid running. I remember like kind of turning towards my stomach and almost like passing I violently threw up. So bad after that, like it was the most like exhausting experience and then realizing everything like it was like a whirlwind after that.
Speaker 2:Like it was the most like exhausting experience and then realizing everything like it was like a whirlwind after that I and I think I mean there's two, there's two really big elements that you had to deal with in an incredibly short amount of time, right like you had to process the fact that, like you just almost died and then you instantly were faced with and now your husband's not here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It's very, very interesting, very interesting how it all just like yeah, I chose not to see him out of the water, I just couldn't.
Speaker 2:How long did it take them to find him A?
Speaker 1:couple hours. It wasn't not to find him, it was more to actually get him out.
Speaker 2:So they knew where he was.
Speaker 1:Yes, he never moved from that area because of where the the water it was okay, he didn't like go down. No nope, he was in the exact same location. That's crazy. That's how much like.
Speaker 2:That's how it like and were you like there with the kids the whole time? I?
Speaker 1:stayed, yes, and so like this is like the universe looking out for us as like the sheriff that showed up as a father of one of the cheer kids. So you knew him, um, and then the Becca came with her whole ambulance and actually Becca kind of like took over, cause my mom was there in her car. I was in my car, becca drove me back to the house. I was just kind of like in a fog. She was the one that was like they're like, do you want to see him? I'm like I don't know if I want. She's like you don't have to, and I just didn't want the rep. I didn't want, like that's not him anymore.
Speaker 2:And I was really scared that I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:I was there.
Speaker 2:We did see him at the viewing yes, and it was not good.
Speaker 1:No, and it's weird because they're not them and their chest is packed with all the ice.
Speaker 2:They look like them, but they don't look like them. No, there's no coloring. It's weird, I couldn't do that I wish we could redo that moment for you and not have these, I mean it's.
Speaker 1:I think I made the right choice and not seeing him. I mean, if that's how he looked, made up.
Speaker 2:Right. No, I agree with you. I don't know if I, emotionally, would have ever been able to recover from that. To be honest, like that's, I don't know how anybody does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why I did like the clothes because it's like not him I wouldn't want, like it's so weird. Like your soul when your soul leaves your body, you definitely like you're not there anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and you can tell like you can feel it.
Speaker 1:You can see it, it's yeah, I've had a lot of experience with death now. So it's been um, although I did not witness my brother passing my mom how to be with him. I did not, and he was cremated so his funeral I didn't see. But, um, I'm glad I don't have that memory of him. That it's just, but it also that, so that is also another it's. I've experienced all kinds of grief and death right, it's not just this.
Speaker 2:Like this this is the most traumatic, correct? This one is all of them because you expect to.
Speaker 1:I mean, my brother was very unexpected, but um, yeah, this is, I just remember. I remember having kinsley and being like you are never leaving me, ever.
Speaker 2:I also remember that conversation and sometimes I'm like you got out of that one.
Speaker 1:You were pregnant yes, well, no, because we kind of like we planned her and I was like you have this long and if it doesn't happen? And we were one month away from it not happening one month and then I'm like okay, and she is like his copy paste yes and also my most in so many ways like she looks the most like him.
Speaker 2:She acts the most like him which is the most interesting because of the fact that she was so young when he passed. But you could see him in her every single day.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they were always like two peas in a pod, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like it would be really hard to sit there and just have to wait. Yeah, or do you feel like in that moment you were when they were trying to?
Speaker 1:I I think in my mind I thought that they possibly he was still going to be alive. I don't think. I thought that he was like it hadn't clicked, that it was yeah I remember, like for a long time after I remember my brain like I don't know if, like I would see like concrete workers, like foundation guys and I would just like look for like Luke or things like that. So I don't know if my brain still ever really like I don't know, I don't know if you ever fully process it yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:I don't know I I remember sitting there and just being like I, I don't know. The time just went by really quickly and then I remember coming here and sitting on my back porch and everyone coming over and just bringing all the alcohol and I didn't even want to drink.
Speaker 2:I didn't even want to drink, you didn't? I remember when I got here, um?
Speaker 1:I was sitting on the back porch, you were sitting on the back porch.
Speaker 2:You were crying, obviously justified. Um, you see me, like people are actively talking to you, and you see me and you just get up and walk straight over to me and you give me a big old hug. Yeah, you say you're blonde. The first thing you said. And I said I know, and you're like he's gone. And I said I know, and you just collapsed on me and then we just hugged for like a half an hour straight. It was rough, it was so hard like I know I'm sorry, no, it's fine, I don't cry, it's good. No, you need to cry no, I don't though I know you don't, but it's okay too.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't allow I cry.
Speaker 1:I cry when we laugh yes, you do.
Speaker 2:I did get you to laugh that earlier, so that's good earlier trying to prep her for this, because it is a hard thing to talk about and it it's it.
Speaker 1:It takes a long time for it to sink in like it didn't even actively happen to me, but like I've known luke a long time, yes you know, because I've been around and he was such a great guy like he was, like he was funny and he always cared, and so it wasn't someone that like I don't know.
Speaker 2:That's hard too right because it wasn't.
Speaker 1:It makes it harder because it was like a fairy tale like not always right, like people know, but we were in the best place like ever ever been. Yes, like our marriage was like so fucking solid and we were like happy like literally worked out all yes, you had both committed and you both brought work through our stuff, yes, through it together. Yes, which a?
Speaker 1:lot of people give up and you guys were like no we're making this work yeah, like you did, separate for a little bit yes, and came back together so much stronger like, and it was like you were an entirely different couple yeah after that and yeah, that's because, like we, yeah, we grew up together and we both came from households with dysfunction and you both lived through your worst moments together.
Speaker 2:Yes, when he went through his worst and we were always like, solid for each other, like, no matter what happens.
Speaker 1:I knew he'd went through his worst and we were always like solid for each other, like, no matter what happens. I knew he'd always have my back and I would always have his and he would never like I, he would never.
Speaker 1:He's done stupid shit that hurt me but that man never like would never fucking hurt me like he, no, not on purpose, like the reasons why we separated was really fucking stupid, dumb reasons, and it was really like let's just see who can do it first and fastest. We were actually together when we like we're going through. Yes, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I lived a block and a half away. We are so fucking stubborn.
Speaker 1:I'm like we're both just stubborn and that's fine.
Speaker 2:But you guys literally had been together since teenagers yes, like which is crazy.
Speaker 1:I remember how I ended up at his house when I was 16 I snuck out and I ended up at his house.
Speaker 2:My mom picked me up the next day from there.
Speaker 1:It was a really awkward conversation because my friend left me there and I'm like, well, how the fuck do I get home? Now she's like I'm gonna go over to my friend's house. She was I don't know. I think we were her. She did I didn't do drugs. Then she, she did things that his brother partook in back then way back in the day, way back, way back in the day.
Speaker 2:I mean this was like 28 plus years. How long ago was this Like?
Speaker 1:2000, 2000 and 20 plus years 2002 or something like that, like 16, 15.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, you met when you were 15,. Right, 15, right, yeah, you met when you were 15, right, yes, yeah, like in that era, yeah, that's just crazy, because I'm not even remotely close to the person that I was when I was 15 and I couldn't imagine still having a relationship with somebody that I had met at that stage of my life. So, like, I think that's incredibly impressive and the fact, yes, you guys had your issues and you broke up and all the things, but, like to the point that it wasn't a very long breakup and we came back stronger.
Speaker 1:But so yeah, that was, and we were together. We would have been married for like 10 years and then together longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's crazy. We got married when I was like three months pregnant with Lily.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize you were already pregnant. Did you know that you were already pregnant? Yes, and it was like Is that why you got married?
Speaker 1:Well, that and among other things, and we just did it because we wanted to just do it without anybody being around. We did it at the hitching post, yeah, and the only person, there was Brayden and he was playing Angry Birds on my phone. And then we went to tai bambu after romantic I didn't need much.
Speaker 1:I was like, I don't care, let's just get married. And then this is why then, when we like, okay, yeah, we got divorced because we were both being assholes, and we literally went down to see who would file the first and I was like what he did an hour before me?
Speaker 2:and then I was like fine we're just doing this out of spite, super petty and we were like together while we were getting the divorce.
Speaker 1:Like you started this process. Now we're fucking finishing it yeah and really I was one that started it too, but then I had to give him shit for me in the one anyways.
Speaker 1:That was really dumb, because then we were together the entire time and then we've been together ever since, so we never really separated. But then I was like he wanted to marry me again so bad in the same way, and I'm like, no, this time it's gonna be fucking huge right, and that's that's also part of what makes it said you guys were actively planning.
Speaker 2:Oh my, gosh.
Speaker 1:He then made the best proposal after, like, okay. He then went, like, then got me the ring and then wanted to make it special and everything.
Speaker 2:And then, yes, we were planning yeah, because I remember we were talking about whether or not you were going to do like a destination thing, because then you guys like think about hawaii for a minute.
Speaker 1:Yes, because that's when our original was in hawaii and we couldn't, we didn't do it because then we were like I don't, yeah, I don't even remember why. We just were dumb back then, in spite of other people. The fact that I don't even remember it makes it that stupid because how long ago it was.
Speaker 2:It's hard to remember things that long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it wasn't a deal breaker, obviously, like. I will never forget that, johnny, bravo. Like robbed me of all my stuff very different very different. I'm just saying also fresher wound, fresher, well yeah, that which leads me into like the whole, like I would have. Yeah, I very much miss my life before. It's just been a shit show out here since, but we make it work.
Speaker 2:We make it work Um yeah. So how I don't know what you've gone into on this show versus what you haven't, but like that was like the beginning of the spiral, obviously, but I feel like most of the audience has just been here for the spiral, but not anymore, because I've unspired I was on the spiral, we were on the spiral and then we unspiraled yes, separately, and then separately um, sorry, that was, that was really that was weird.
Speaker 2:But like I feel like obviously you're in a really good place now and stuff, I mean it still hits and it's hard and all of the things, but how long do you think it took you to actually even process that it was really happening?
Speaker 1:I think that I had to do that, like through the ketamine and stuff because yeah because I couldn't. I've never been able to, like I still. This is probably the most I've even sat down and talked about it like yeah, it is so, um, yeah, it's more like an internal journey with ketamine that I've been processing those feelings with. It's something I actively work on still yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2:I mean honestly, in the grand scheme of things, it it hasn't been that long like it. No, it hasn't, it hasn't, no, and I'm really fucking good at making myself so busy?
Speaker 1:I don't think about it. I've done a lot of healing, I've done a shit ton of healing and like I've I've worked on it. But then I also like compartmentalize and like put it away.
Speaker 2:But I think it's also good like, because when you share all the things, whether it's on the podcast or if it's the memories, the photos or whatever.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's got to help a little bit, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love talking about it, so you love talking about how good your relationship is, and then not so much talking about.
Speaker 1:I like talking, oh yes, I like sharing the memories that pop up. That's like, yes, um, I think I'm, I feel more free to share things on. I used to share a lot more than I do now and I don't know if it's just because I feel like it's been longer. It's like I shouldn't. Sometimes I'm like maybe people don't, but I'm like maybe people don't, but then I. So that's why I separate things a lot more from my personal to like hot wooded mess has a lot more of my actual grief journey on it. Now. I don't think grief ever changes. It definitely hits hard all the time and it changes like now. I feel like it's hard with like the kids growing up and it's like I'm the only parent. I'm the only parent ever not like financially or emotionally.
Speaker 1:It's like I would just fucking love to be able to tell him how amazing they are yeah and like what they're doing and how fucking cool they are, that Lily's a little asshole and got an F we won't talk about that she's just on one assignment, but it's the first one of the quarter, so I had to take her phone away and I'm like you can't just be pretty and do cool tricks, okay, um but he was like he was such a cheer dad he was, and he was such a good dad like the kids sometimes would be just so much and kinsley's been so much.
Speaker 1:I would just be like I'm going to the bath and he would just take them like he'd work all day and then would be dad and just whenever I'd go teach he just he was just always like down to be a good dad, like down to dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I love that.
Speaker 2:So on the day when everything happened, because obviously the kids were there- yes. Like how did that did? Did somebody else take them?
Speaker 1:or they went, I don't know. I think they went in the car with my mom home and just followed us. They were here at the house. I think it's just like we just try to keep them as busy as possible. We had friends around, people around. Thank you to everyone who, like, sent meals, sent gifts, sent things for the kids, um, kept them in cheer so nothing changed for them. I try to keep everything. I mean everything's been the same Um all same.
Speaker 2:Um, all of our pictures are still up of him. Yes, that's my favorite thing about your house actually. Oh, it's always consistent and I can always come in. Yes, me and him had a yes, a back and forth relationship, but it was good we were friends, and then we weren't, and then we were, and then we weren't, and then we were.
Speaker 1:It's fine, it's fine you guys also have a long history.
Speaker 2:That's also mine in your pattern, so it's's fine, it's fine, just on a different timeline.
Speaker 1:Never to part ever again. That's why you won't get married to me. You don't want that commitment.
Speaker 2:I commitment scares me, but we're not here to talk about me.
Speaker 1:Another tangent If you want to hear about that our other podcast. We are not the same. I don't really want to marry her. I need to preface it with that. It's just a joke.
Speaker 2:Listen to the other podcast she just wants the um tax benefit no, it's for you.
Speaker 1:It's for you, babe, not me I don't do my own business. That doesn't help. It helps you because you make too much money.
Speaker 2:You need more dependence you can just play my children it'll be I don't know.
Speaker 1:Do you need one? Do you also have to take? You can have a short one, but you have to hang out with her think about she would love on your dogs all the time. We would love if we got married I know he'd be like this, is it? Do you think he's up there?
Speaker 2:like you fucking got it wrong with johnny bravo yes, I told you that on more than one occasion.
Speaker 1:I listen as your best friend, but I mean like as your best friend. He's, I mean like as your best friend.
Speaker 2:I think he's laughing at me, I am able to say things without having to sugarcoat them. Yes, and so I say things rough and raw.
Speaker 1:And I flat out told you that Luke would be disappointed in you?
Speaker 2:Yes, because he would be.
Speaker 1:He would.
Speaker 2:But he's gone now.
Speaker 1:Yes and forever.
Speaker 2:Yes, no more Johnny Bravo ever.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yes and forever. Yes, no more Johnny Bravo, ever. Oh yeah, an update is coming on that soon, by the way. Yeah, we haven't addressed it on this podcast, we have on the other. We'll do another time, another time. This is yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we are approaching an anniversary, then, because this is going to be four years, five, five years. Oh my yeah, it is 2025, isn't it? Time goes by so fast.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like, do you like have a routine that you do every year that's kind of just for you? Or like how do you process that day? Because that day every year has got to be harder than any other day of the year, I would think yes and oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, this last year I was traveling to nashville with lily, so I, if it's possible, like the first few years, I planned an adventure so I would go to some place that me and him would want to go to or do something. I've definitely made it a point since he's been gone to and in fact, I've lived my life much more intentionally, like I don't wait for things, I take the trip, I spend the money, I do the things like I live very much more like in the moment, like when I say spend the money, it's like all my children do the things like I'm, not, like you.
Speaker 2:Don't hold back, no, because like I want those experiences.
Speaker 1:So I want me, on my children, do the things like I'm not, like you, don't hold back, no, because like I want those experiences so I want me and my children to have all the experiences we can together, um, so that, yeah, we have full memories, so they have memories of me.
Speaker 1:I have memories of them because that's like I feel it now, that's like really all we have, which is one reason I was so thankful that, like covid kind of happened and we were forced to like we have so many memories of doing stuff together that Luke would have been working otherwise, because he worked all the time all the time he did work a lot yes, and it was because he provided for us.
Speaker 1:Right it was, and he knew I was bougie and I wanted xyz and he wanted me to be at home. I mean I still worked, but like he wanted to provide, yeah, and mine was like extra, he wanted to be the one that took care of everything. He enjoyed doing that and he always had from the oil field to here concrete. I mean he always worked and wore neon. Yes, I will always associate him I wonder if he still would, because you know how your style changes and evolves when, when did his style change?
Speaker 2:no, I say you know how people style, I know but I'm telling you, based off of, would he still be wearing neon 100?
Speaker 1:I feel like when we feel at first it was like sullen and dark clothing, like he'd wear sullen and dark clothing and then it was 15 no like you know. Oh, then back then yeah, then it was like 20s. It was like yeah, like sullen, and you know all that, and then it turned into buckle jeans and american fighter you also love the buckle I not so much anymore. I've evolved out of it. I feel like I just now wear nike and stretchy clothes you pretty much just wear sweats and workout clothes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one or the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, at all times I don't know what else there is. Um, especially like, because it's like I'm teaching classes or I'm working out and then I want to be comfortable totally and I have reached a point in prep where I'm like cold again all the time. So it's like the sweats and I'm tired. I'm tired.
Speaker 2:It's the end of the week, my body's tired yeah, because it's sad, because it doesn't get to eat delicious things. It doesn't anymore.
Speaker 1:But I've been this really like. Okay, this does feed in bodybuilding, saved me a hundred percent from this trauma and I have processed my trauma, a lot of it working out and moving, and this is a proven thing. So in the book, the body keeps the score. It talks about movement being healing and movement trauma being trapped in your body and movement being a way, movement being a way to free it. And I am able to process so much through lifting heavy to hurting myself, not hurting myself.
Speaker 1:But right now, but working myself to a point of exhaustion. Yes, of exhaustion, yes, and I think this is my success in bodybuilding, because I go into the gym every day with the intention to free myself of whatever fucking mental demons I'm battling that day.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whether it be grief, self-doubt, whatever the fuck I'm feeling. Usually it's like feelings of grief, like fucking sucks that you're not here anymore, or I'm doing this all you know not all the time, but shit like that yeah.
Speaker 2:But that I mean that is hard, I mean raising kids by yourself is hard period.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it more like sometimes I'm like I don't have anyone that I have to share them with, so but it's a different kind of thing, that is a bit of him, let me tell you. I think of your situation and I'm like.
Speaker 2:I prefer mine but at the same time.
Speaker 1:There's never anyone that's ever gonna love my children on earth this more as much as I do, so it's like I wish I had someone that I could just call. I mean, I can talk to you and stuff, but it's not the same, it's not the same.
Speaker 1:It's not the same as having that. So I feel like I just keep a lot of my parental um joys in and that's a different thing for me. I feel like I lost out on parenting because of this, if that makes sense that's fair, because I and this is not a diss in any way- so please don't take it that way.
Speaker 2:But like when all of that happened, in that immediate aftermath you couldn't parent. But like how could you? Like because you couldn't yeah, you couldn't take care of yourself. Yes, you know.
Speaker 1:That's why I was like very thankful that you know there's people around and my mom so thankful for her, but like, not just that, but like even now, like parenting. Like parenting is not the way. I guess this is not how I envisioning my parenting going yeah.
Speaker 2:So this is like the loss of my parenting, Like I you know family structure, the life that you envision and you do parent like you just are no longer like fully there.
Speaker 1:You parent in survival mode to your children. You are not fully present.
Speaker 2:I was there.
Speaker 1:You cater to them more than you would have otherwise no that's good no, definitely not, and in fact I feel like now they know because they were there, they saw it like kinsley's the only one that doesn't understand um, but that, like we're just in this together, I think they also understand that life is like. They've also been affected. Yes, they've gone through counseling and everything. They are very into their sports. They have hard days too.
Speaker 2:They also but also I mean that kind of proves like to you going to bodybuilding. That's what they did with cheer. So, like they chose almost a very similar method to deal with their grief? Yes, and then it's great, because then you guys can relate on that level.
Speaker 1:I think Lily's the only one that shares the same love for it that I do. She went to class with me this morning and she loves working out. She wants to do fitness. Brayden is just the only elective that he'll do now is weights, but he's not asking me to go to the gym the way she is and I have to force him to eat. It's like I don't understand you well, boys are different I know, as you know, yeah but then that that's an element.
Speaker 2:That's also difficult, right? Because as oh my god, it broke my heart the other day I go brayden?
Speaker 1:why do you always run to the women in your life and then he goes. Mom, all I have is women in my life and I'm like, oh too shit okay, it's on real housewives.
Speaker 2:It's on real housewives. I don't understand the reference.
Speaker 1:Okay. So she says too shit bitch, and it's like that's not how you say it, so that's not it, I'm gonna show you. Okay, that's the reference, it's from real housewives and it's so funny because she wants to be so like and like. She thought she and she was like too shit bitch and it's like nope. So now I can only ever say that.
Speaker 2:I can never say it again.
Speaker 1:I'll show you the reference and she's all, and it's just like you said, yeah so that is like, so my kids have a dad, ish.
Speaker 2:But like I still feel like there are still elements that I am forced to face you're a single parent, solo parent. He now is just like their delinquent older brother yes, basically he acts like one for sure and cheryl's just house arrest you basically just married cheryl, which is a whole nother subject lord, help me.
Speaker 1:But she's, she's co-parenting well with you now well, we're not currently speaking, but that's not okay, so sometimes she co-parents.
Speaker 2:Well, yes but the whole point is like they have a male figure and they don't like yours don't either way and like that.
Speaker 1:So me if, like, I try I love on them so much and that look out for them and I'm very thankful that for that, like very thankful, especially the coaches now I'm.
Speaker 2:But yeah, again, there's not a lot of are there a lot of male coaches are braden is in case, braden is very, very a masculine cheerleader. He's not he doesn't have a feminine cheerleader he's a very masculine cheerleader, that's just so.
Speaker 1:He's surrounding. He's trying to find his place in a world of femininity right, because it's everywhere for him. Yes, and he's. He's going to be the best husband one day because he just takes directions. He's like where do you need me to go? I will do whatever you need. He opens the doors, he does.
Speaker 2:He's great I feel like I kind of have that with my kids too. Deegan will do any of the ask.
Speaker 1:Yes, both of our boys were really good friends for a reason because they have really kind hearts.
Speaker 2:Yes, they gravitated towards each other because they are both very kind hearted, for sure.
Speaker 1:And then they also.
Speaker 2:I mean it's kind of sad that they didn't. They don't still like hang out on the regular.
Speaker 1:No, I think, because they just like different things. I think they tried to now.
Speaker 2:They did, they did, and it just doesn't the same anymore because they had too many years apart.
Speaker 1:And yeah, they're different paths. Like brayden's very into pokemon and cheer and he was into well, they did karate together for a long time yes um, brayden doesn't really remember. He does remember, but not he's just really into cheer.
Speaker 2:I don't know how much deegan remembers either, but they do have so much in common though also, but it's, I don't know, it's just weird maybe like, as they get older, they will you know what I mean. Circle back around, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's hard to like have to deal with like the boy stuff when you don't have experience with it yeah, I think that's where it's hard for me, because that's where my connection with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like I try to connect with him but it's like I don't have that. Where luke and him would go to work, he luke would bring him to work with him yeah and that was like, yeah, and he was in the process of adopting him, so yes, making that official yes, which we're still gonna make him a gardener I love that once he's 18, we don't even have to wait, we just go down and pay the fee. Yeah, you just change your name absolutely yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, I do love that. I mean he has been. Let's be real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, exactly he has been. Actually, it has been hyphenated. I've always hyphenated it. But we're just going to drop the other completely.
Speaker 2:So I love that Yep sense um luke is now in the hero, as he is a hero, and in the carnegie hero memorial that's. Is that like a place that?
Speaker 1:you can visit like how does that?
Speaker 1:work I have like a big metal thing he's it's like on yeah plaque and then like little metals and like pins for the kids, and there there is something. It's back east though, in like pennsylvania or something like that, because it's like nationwide, and then they hear stories and then they investigate the stories and see if it's like a real hero thing and it's just like you know, basis based on. I guess, if you look it up, it's like this it's based on this guy who ran into this mine to save people and he ended up dying, and so they created this memorial for people who risk their lives and save other people so, yes, that's great.
Speaker 2:So, yes, yeah. So for the five year, what are you doing? Are you still adventuring or are you?
Speaker 1:um this will be different this year?
Speaker 2:does it feel different?
Speaker 1:um, it's different now with bodybuilding because I'm usually in prep, so I this year will do something. I am going to be four days post show and I don't know if we're going to continue on with show or it will be okay. Actually, what we always do, regardless if it's something big or not, I always either make his favorite things or get his favorite food with the kids, so it's like all. It's a day of his favorites. No matter what, it's always a day of his favorites and it's Reese's peanut butter cups yeah, yep.
Speaker 2:Oreos that boy could go through those peanut butter cups yes didn't like wasn't it one year, like for Valentine's. Day that you just bought him, like all of the peanut butter cups. Oh, do you remember for his?
Speaker 1:birthday I made thatese's peanut butter cup bouquet that was like all yes and then I had the volkswagen pinata stuffed with all the, and I made the peanut butter poke cake. I go, I went all out like I used to be, like that pinterest wife yeah I just don't have time anymore because of all the things like we five jobs like you gotta have multiple revenue streams, all the things and kids take up a lot of time, and then bodybuilding and all.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's that's part of it too, right, so you, he was the provider.
Speaker 1:So like your whole life changed in so many different ways I had to become everything where before I worked and whatever that was. It was just like extra.
Speaker 2:Right, which was? It went from being supplemental to being your primary source.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't have the ability to do what he did, like he could go work a side job and make three grand a weekend. I do not have that ability, Neither God.
Speaker 2:I wish I did.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, his man. He had the ability to and he was such a good worker. It's cause he was a hard ass worker, yes, always. And he would have seven jobs if he could, and the only reason he left the oil field because that was really good money was because I was like this is no life for a family. Yeah, which is fair, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a hard life, it was, and there's nothing in north dakota. Nope, I would never want to be there, it never was so cold.
Speaker 1:I remember when he brought me there, I'm like why?
Speaker 2:why are we here?
Speaker 1:and then he bought me uggs and I'm like I'm still not going outside. That only helps my feet. And then I still I'm like I'm not coming back here no, why would you ever want? It was like snowing hard in october it was like negative, some degrees gross.
Speaker 2:No, it's snowing now and it's miserable and I'm upset about it's been snowing non-stop yeah, it's like the day knew what the day was. They're like it's a sad day.
Speaker 1:It's a sad day it has been more sadly. I think there's just time. I think a lot of the facebook memories pop up. It's so weird when I decide to start looking right right around um like holidays.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's always like an increase.
Speaker 1:Well, and with COVID, there's like. I took so many videos of us doing stuff together. I stopped looking at Facebook memories for a long time. I'm really good at avoidance. That's one of my. I keep myself really busy.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:I keep myself really busy and I avoid.
Speaker 2:So that's why we're friends. Yes, it's so funny. I support that decision and I'm like, yeah, we can just move on. I love just moving on. That's my favorite way to handle.
Speaker 1:I know, let's just go.
Speaker 2:It's perfect. Perfect Sounds great.
Speaker 1:Let's just move on. Yeah, this is one of those. You just yeah. So we just move through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you? We can wrap it up. It feels strange to like just have it kind of floating in the yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like I hit bullet points. I feel like there's so much more but that was like. That was definitely like definitely like that was the gist of it. That was how it happened. It went from a day that I was not working that I remember I went and got my lashes done, I got my eyebrows, and I went to lunch with Claire and her mom and it was like let's go, you know, let's hurry and go to the river. To like my whole entire life changed, like it's just weird.
Speaker 2:So fast.
Speaker 1:And now life is like, literally, I joke around it's like, you know, like before Christ and after Christ. It's like you know, like before Christ and after Christ.
Speaker 2:it's like before Luke, after Luke. That's how life now is, because it's so different. It's literally night and day different and it changed me.
Speaker 1:It grief changes you in so many ways.
Speaker 2:And then everything after yeah, well, and it's like you're constantly changing who you are after I think you just have to find.
Speaker 1:I think now I'm like really solid in my identity of who I am but like, yeah, you can look, there was like a hippie phase.
Speaker 2:There was like a yes, I remember, I think I was looking back, biggest bell bottoms, oh, but I still love those.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I looked at those.
Speaker 2:There is no way my legs would fit in any of that now I was so tiny you got really thin afterwards and I know ass and no legs. Well, but again, it goes back to you weren't taking care of yourself but like, but like the amount of.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of what I built. Now I know there was a lot of drinking and no food.
Speaker 2:I just stopped eating. I remember everyone would be like food and we wouldn't be able to get us drunk.
Speaker 1:Not only that, but like who ate food at that point in time.
Speaker 2:Like literally everybody but us.
Speaker 1:We were the only ones.
Speaker 2:We were the only ones.
Speaker 1:We ate mushrooms and blizzards, that's not exactly what? Once or twice?
Speaker 2:We'd make these elaborate charcuterie boards and not touch them and then a couple bites, yeah we'd have like one piece, we'd spend 150 and then not eat it yeah that was bad. It was bad, it was good, but it was bad we just weren't hungry we were both dealing with stuff like it was.
Speaker 2:It's hard to say because, like I'm glad that trying to think of the best way to say this without it like I'm glad that we were both able to kind of be there for each other in the best way that we knew how, as we were both literally we're both plummeting enabling each other we were like it turned, like it was bad, but it was good at the same you know what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:I think we did it like it was a bad outcome at least it was us and we didn't have it, wasn't anybody else?
Speaker 2:and we didn't do it alone no because I feel you were there for me so hard I did my best and I would have been there for you.
Speaker 1:I would have been there for you in any way.
Speaker 2:You needed me to right, but you weren't in a capacity to. You didn't even know that I wasn't good no you didn't know.
Speaker 1:Like that's a really important part of the story that I, because I still were dealing you, I was like there's no way. I was always like I'm the fucked up one.
Speaker 2:She's the one, that's fine you're like she's got it all together and and I'm like what? Literally?
Speaker 1:Literally. I'm like, because I was like you were so solid, I can fall apart right now.
Speaker 2:I think, if I would have known.
Speaker 1:I probably would have turned on the other way.
Speaker 2:Right, but that wouldn't have done anybody any good.
Speaker 1:No, we were just having fun living our lives to the best of our ability. We were fucking trying, trying sending you on a wild goose chase for me early in the morning after I had you dress up like d from clueless you dress me up all the time.
Speaker 2:I became your personal barbie doll, because that's what made you happy in the moment, it was fun like I was very much, really enjoyed. Whatever you need and you're like I need that was your fault for showing up, okay great, and I'm like whatever you need, and you're like I need me to clothe you and I'm like okay, whatever you need, clothe you yes.
Speaker 1:I need the condom.
Speaker 2:Can I say that when I did dress you, up and we did your like.
Speaker 1:The pictures that we took of you are my favorite pictures ever.
Speaker 2:Which photos Rebel Collective? Oh okay, I thought for a second we were going into stranger danger territory and I was like what no, but yes, rebel collect. They are also my favorite photos of me.
Speaker 1:that I, yes, I need to get jill. We need to do that again. That was actually very fun. I really. I think I traumatized jill because I was going through shit and jill is not accustomed to you were definitely it got, it got I'm not gonna lie babe, it got rough. Um one time I ate mushrooms and turned the Airbnb up to like 93 degrees and she got upset with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, I also get cold. Yes, do you remember?
Speaker 1:that time. That's the only reason you let me cuddle you, cause we were freezing.
Speaker 2:I love you with every fiber of my being, but please don't hug me. I was like like it's cold, just let it happen. I'm like fine justice. Don't get the wrong idea. That doesn't mean you can just hug me whenever you want.
Speaker 1:The side note the mushrooms were um for mental health.
Speaker 2:Actually we were hey, that is now actually an approved treatment, it is no, I studied this.
Speaker 1:You not remember. I have all the books and all the things.
Speaker 2:We had a whole discussion with Deeth about medicinal yes, and the psychedelic journeys, and we did it very much too.
Speaker 1:And microdosing, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it actually. It does Scientifically, so that's what it was Just like.
Speaker 1:We were looking for another alternative that was more natural and actually you can pay to go on medicated psilocybin journeys now. Yes, but like crazy one, like macro dosing, we mini dosed.
Speaker 2:Macro dosing. They do like what is it the ayahuasca.
Speaker 1:Thank you, oh did you know that they approved MDMA now?
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:No, yes, so to know, yes for um. So like you can go, like how I went with my ketamine, yeah, you can go do ketamine and dma?
Speaker 2:what is? How was that supposed? Like you're, because you talk about it's talking.
Speaker 1:No, so you talk through, you talk. It allows you to talk through whatever your trauma is. So, like my, guided sessions.
Speaker 2:That's where I struggle, as I can't talk about.
Speaker 1:So with Allison when I did the in, we should do a whole ketamine.
Speaker 2:I want to do it.
Speaker 1:We should end here and then we will do a whole ketamine thing where we talk about, and then I talk about all the things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm here for it, but yeah, so. All right, thanks for joining me. Well, and thanks for being vulnerable. I knew that we've been talking about potentially doing this. Oh yeah, I've been putting it off for weeks.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, just so you know, some of these episodes that I've been putting up are like vaulted episodes, so if they don't make sense for current times, that's why. But they're too good not to share. I feel like they have good tidbits in there and everybody needs them. So you have enjoyed a few older episodes, some that have never been released even and they're older. So, yeah, I hope you enjoy this one and we'll talk to you next week. We'll do a ketamine. We'll do a ketamine one. Okay, that'll be good.
Speaker 2:I'm here for it.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye.
